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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:25 pm 
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Other Steve wrote:
Some say we should dump the EU and align more with the USA. Sadly, being in the EU is a necessity for the USA to take us seriously.

The EU has too many diverse economies and cultures to run well, by and large it runs tolerably with a few well publicised excesses. FWIW at least the Lisbon treaty gives us back the right to exit the EU.


I'd like to know the IQ of those who want to align with the failing US/Israel.

I'd quite like to see Canada in the EU, they're french-brit anyway. And before anyone whines, you'd have an automatic right to live there.


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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:28 pm 
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Much as I agree with that Sciatico, Canada has no chance of survival without strong ties with the USA.

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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:52 pm 
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I'd like to see the IQ of those who seriously believe this country, one of the 5 most successful on Earth, couldn't survive and prosper without either clinging to America's skirts or being a fully paid up member of the EU gang.


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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:58 pm 
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survive yes, prosper: no

130 before you ask

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Just for clarity if a player abuses the referee, does a shake of hands after the game wipe the slate clean??

Rio Ferdinand on Twitter responding to Blatter's latest idiocy


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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:03 pm 
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I couldn't disagree more. It's time this country got its self esteem back. That's our main - possibly our only - problem.


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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:17 pm 
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The idea that we have to be in the EU is accepted wisdom. It's something we've been told so many times, by people with vested interests, that a lot of people don't question it. And bear in mind that these are the same people who told us at the start of the decade that we had to be in the Euro, that it would be very bad for us if we kept the pound and we were all just ignorant Little Englanders.

But what will actually happen if we leave the EU? I imagine it would be quite bad for the EU itself since there are few countries paying in and plenty taking out. Plus it might give other member states ideas. But what will happen to us? Will the EU countries we trade with send us to coventry coz we've left the gang? Or will they continue to trade with us in the mutually beneficial way we've been doing for centuries? What will we miss out on as non-members?

Maybe I'm wrong and I'm missing something but I've had or heard this argument a hundred times and I've yet to hear a overwhelming argument for continuing our membership.


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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:31 pm 
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The UK economy has to have trade. The dominant buying and brokering trading partners are the EU and the USA. Both use tariffs to keep out goods from other advanced countries. The USA for example treats GATT as a joke and happily adds protectionist duties to our goods until the EU tells it to Eff off and threatens retaliation.

Outside the EU both would only buy from us where they HAVE to (and just what do they HAVE to buy from us?) or on disadvantaged terms.

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Just for clarity if a player abuses the referee, does a shake of hands after the game wipe the slate clean??

Rio Ferdinand on Twitter responding to Blatter's latest idiocy


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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:12 pm 
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Officer Dibble wrote:
The idea that we have to be in the EU is accepted wisdom. It's something we've been told so many times, by people with vested interests, that a lot of people don't question it. And bear in mind that these are the same people who told us at the start of the decade that we had to be in the Euro, that it would be very bad for us if we kept the pound and we were all just ignorant Little Englanders.

But what will actually happen if we leave the EU? I imagine it would be quite bad for the EU itself since there are few countries paying in and plenty taking out. Plus it might give other member states ideas. But what will happen to us? Will the EU countries we trade with send us to coventry coz we've left the gang? Or will they continue to trade with us in the mutually beneficial way we've been doing for centuries? What will we miss out on as non-members?

Maybe I'm wrong and I'm missing something but I've had or heard this argument a hundred times and I've yet to hear a overwhelming argument for continuing our membership.


It's more to do with you not understanding the plain advantages of a group of countries working to the same rules.


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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:50 pm 
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Sciatico wrote:
Elvis wrote:
Sciatico wrote:
You remind me of a menopausal hag, Elvis. All bitch and no substance.
Thank you for those few kind words.

As we appear to have moved on to a general slanging match:
May I say you remind me of a wide eyed, innocent child, looking at the world through rose tinted glasses, dreaming of good things appearing from a magic lamp. :wink:


Not at all. I already know the many things the EU has enabled me to do, far more pros than cons. It's the ignorant that desire GB to become even more irrelevant, just like them.
Thanks for proving my point, I wasn't referring to the EU at the time.
____________
Back on topic, more or less:

As far as Britain, the EU and trade is concerned, Other Steve seems to be one of the minority that understands the concept of unity.

Too many children of the Septic Isle appear to be happy enough to go down with the ship, believing they were born into a British Empire that no longer exists and hasn't for many decades, a country that will eventually struggle to maintain it's place on the world stage if it backs out of Europe.

At the present rate of descent, Britain cannot maintain it's position in world rankings for very much longer, it's a pipe dream to even consider that possibility, it has too little to offer.

Ignore China at your peril, in the 60s, I warned others of the yellow peril, but have since realised that they're not threatening us militarily, but doing exactly what we as a nation did to build an Empire, by trading shoddy goods.

Britain hasn't even got shoddy goods to trade any longer, it's becoming impotent in the world market, in the main, only able to sell services and trade money.

Can anyone here imagine Ohio or any other single State of the USA, deciding to make a bid for independence from the alliance?
That's what too many ignorant British citizens want now.

Wake up and smell the shit, before it hits the fan! :!:

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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 3:25 pm 
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None of which really answers my questions though. Why do we need to be in the EU to trade with countries that are? Do EU countries not trade with non-EU ones? How much trade would we actually stand to lose if we left the EU? How do Norway and Switzerland somehow survive their non-membership?

I could give a rat's arse about being a member of a political organisation working to the same rules. Government and bureaucracy does not impress me. I could see the merits of economic unity but I have no wish to be joined together politically with the rest of Europe and for the citizen of any European country to have as much say over my laws as I do.


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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 4:55 pm 
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Norway and Switzerland are not supporting as many millions of spongers as the UK for one thing.
Both countries have much smaller populations in comparison and fewer unemployed.

Britain is fast running out of anything to trade and is up to it's eyes in debt, importing more than it exports.

Belonging to Europe, supposedly ensures that in a crisis we will all survive as a family and benefit or suffer equally.

Wouldn't it be nice to know that the frogs, squareheads, wops and dagos aren't doing any better than you pinkos, when Britain finally sinks? :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:33 pm 
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Norway and Switzerland also have land borders with that huge economy Germany. Helps a lot.

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Just for clarity if a player abuses the referee, does a shake of hands after the game wipe the slate clean??

Rio Ferdinand on Twitter responding to Blatter's latest idiocy


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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:55 pm 
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Other Steve wrote:
Norway and Switzerland also have land borders with that huge economy Germany. Helps a lot.


Norway has a land border with Germany?

Has anyone told them?

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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:03 pm 
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Old Hoborn - if you look at the map you just posted you'll see that Norway doesn't border on Germany - and so I should think that nobody will tell them.


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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:11 pm 
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I wish the EU-Fanatics would provide some concrete evidence of an advantage to the UK of continuing it's membership. All I hear is emotional opinionated drivel.

Fact: The USA is gaining market share in the global market and the EU is losing it.
Fact: The USA has created 10x more new jobs than the EU over the last decade.
Fact: The USA invest more in the UK than any other country.
Fact: The UK invests more in the USA than any other country.
Fact: The UK's economy is more in snych. with the USA economy than that of the EU.
Fact: The UK has a ongoing negative balance of trade with the EU.
Fact: The USA is a modern democracy which is, at times accountable to it's electorate, the EU is not.
Fact: The $US has a "Lender of Last Resort" the USA and the Euro is underwritten by nobody.
Fact: If the EU spend 20% of GDP for the next 20 years it still would not achieve the military super power ranking of the USA.
Fact: The USA has the most top universities for science and technology on the planet. The EU has two Oxford and Cambridge.
Fact" American Laws have similar origons to British Law.
Fact: The Americans speak a dialect of English.

So if you were to pick a business partner for Britain for the next 50 to 100 years, who would you pick EU or the USA ?

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