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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:29 pm 
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Officer Dibble wrote:
None of which really answers my questions though. Why do we need to be in the EU to trade with countries that are? Do EU countries not trade with non-EU ones? How much trade would we actually stand to lose if we left the EU? How do Norway and Switzerland somehow survive their non-membership?

I could give a rat's arse about being a member of a political organisation working to the same rules. Government and bureaucracy does not impress me. I could see the merits of economic unity but I have no wish to be joined together politically with the rest of Europe and for the citizen of any European country to have as much say over my laws as I do.


Oh dear, do try to get your marble around this:
The EU can and does impose import duties on NON-EU countries. This makes imported goods less competitive than EU ones.
GB for absurd reasons has already disadvantaged itself by not adopting the Euro.
If it were not a member either, it would be even more uncompetitive.

The whole point of working to the same rule book is that anyone can buy and sell things without problems across the EU and have the same rights and freedoms.

You may not give a rat's arse, but business and hence the economy of the country does. It also means that YOU can go to an EU court if YOU feel the GB government has failed to enforce an EU law that is to YOUR benefit, like data protection ones for one example:
http://ec.europa.eu/justice_home/fsj/pr ... dom_en.pdf

You have the right of access to data about you (which must be supplied in reasonable time).

" Very stringent rules apply to processing sensitive data: data relating to racial or ethnic origin, political opinions, religious or philosophical beliefs trade union membership, data concerning health or sexual preference. In principle, such data cannot be processed..."

You have the right to be informed of any data processing when you are the data subject.

If you have a spam problem your email provider must give you a spam filter.

etc.



GB now has the most surveillance of citizens of any western country. It's smacking right up against the boundaries of what's permitted by EU law, and quite probably exceeding it in some cases. You can turn to the EU if you feel Herr Brown and chums have overstepped the mark.

Of course anyone who doesn't want you having more rights will try to make you dislike the EU and ensure your rights are not set in stone by a constitution.


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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 7:23 pm 
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oldrwb wrote:
So if you were to pick a business partner for Britain for the next 50 to 100 years, who would you pick EU or the USA ?
Neither, anyone with a grain of common sense would choose China!

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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:48 pm 
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oldrwb wrote:
I wish the EU-Fanatics would provide some concrete evidence of an advantage to the UK of continuing it's membership. All I hear is emotional opinionated drivel.

Wrong. It's EU sceptics that forever drool ignorant emotive drivvel about "our once great country", "self esteem", inches, thous, shillings, wops, frogs etc.

Fact: The USA is gaining market share in the global market and the EU is losing it.

And the US still has a huge trade deficit, with the EU as well.

Fact: The USA has created 10x more new jobs than the EU over the last decade.

Yet it's unemployment rate is shooting up, 5% and rising.

Fact: The USA invest more in the UK than any other country.
Fact: The UK invests more in the USA than any other country.

You must mean share dealing.

Fact: The UK's economy is more in snych. with the USA economy than that of the EU.

Lol! Going downhill fast!

Fact: The UK has a ongoing negative balance of trade with the EU.

Let's throw that away too by leaving the EU, Duh!

Fact: The USA is a modern democracy which is, at times accountable to it's electorate, the EU is not.

Utter crap! The US is dominated by a minority of Israel extremists. No politician can survive unless he cowers to the zionist lobby. It's such a bad example of democracy it virtually isn't one.
The euro MPs you elect can stop the passing of any treaty because they can only be passed with 100% support. Treaties can be re-negotiated if desired.

Fact: The $US has a "Lender of Last Resort" the USA and the Euro is underwritten by nobody.

Yet it's not able to stem the decline of the $. "The USA" can be a lender of worthless money to itself.

Fact: If the EU spend 20% of GDP for the next 20 years it still would not achieve the military super power ranking of the USA.

The US turned out to not be such a "Super" power after all. They have problems fielding 150 000 crusaders even after all that huge expense. The CIA, the world's biggest intelligence agency, repeatedly proves itself to be utter crap as well. They may as well have Mossad running it officially

Fact: The USA has the most top universities for science and technology on the planet. The EU has two Oxford and Cambridge.

Lol! I hope you're not seriously trying to imply yanks and brits have better education than most Europeans?

Fact" American Laws have similar origons to British Law.

Which the Orwellian ZioConReps change at even more of a whim than the Orwellian LabCons.

Fact: The Americans speak a dialect of English.

Shame neither can spell or speak it properly. Even European schoolkids can spell English better than Brits.

So if you were to pick a business partner for Britain for the next 50 to 100 years, who would you pick EU or the USA ?


Comeon y'all, ya can be 'nother star on the 'mer'cun flag! Give us an "A", give us an "M".....

**** off.
[/quote]


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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:56 pm 
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Sciatico wrote:
It's more to do with you not understanding the plain advantages of a group of countries working to the same rules.

The supposed advantages of a group of countries working to the same rules is devalued by many of the countries working to their own interpretation of the rules and most of the rest ignoring the rules. :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:07 pm 
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Andy.I wrote:
Sciatico wrote:
It's more to do with you not understanding the plain advantages of a group of countries working to the same rules.

The supposed advantages of a group of countries working to the same rules is devalued by many of the countries working to their own interpretation of the rules and most of the rest ignoring the rules. :shock:


So you DO want countries working to the same rules, good.


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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:14 pm 
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Elvis wrote:
oldrwb wrote:
So if you were to pick a business partner for Britain for the next 50 to 100 years, who would you pick EU or the USA ?
Neither, anyone with a grain of common sense would choose China!


Now there's a place that doesn't need partners. They would be quite capable of raising the Wall of China and converting the workforce back to tending the fields.


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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:39 pm 
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China produces shit and the world knows it.

If you absolutely want the job done, buy German. And the world knows it.

The Tiger economy is more fragile than Emma Watson's virginity. It will go "boom". People buy Chinese when they cannot afford German.

So. China cannot produce. The US cannot produce. The Soviets cannot produce. Asia cannot produce. Africa cannot produce and the Germans can.

For all those busy blabbing that the Chinese will rule the planet.....

Watch the Germans. They very, very , very nearly had the third reich on a thousand year roll. It ain't over yet. They OWN Europe.

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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:53 pm 
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I'd love to argue with that OH but I can't argue with a word.

Germany had the world at its feet 100 years ago and screwed it by fighting an unecessary world war (1). Germans get their designs and manufacturing tooling right by spending more money up front than just about everyone else.

Maybe it's because they have a large home market to recover it from, maybe it's their culture. Surely it couldn't be because their TV is wall to wall porn after midnight. If only more Germans had a sense of humour

Maybe Japan is a rival.

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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:00 pm 
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Sciatico wrote:
Of course anyone who doesn't want you having more rights will try to make you dislike the EU and ensure your rights are not set in stone by a constitution.


How about if those rights in the new fangled "constitution" are actually LESS than you have right now? LESS than your ancestors had. Less than ANYBODY had (apart from the Soviets of course). Set your slavery in stone?

Nope.

Thanks for asking.

The EU does not give anybody more rights. It gives them less. If you doubt me, exercise your "right" to buy a pound of mince (or 480 grammes, your choice). Exercise your right to work more than 40 hours a week, if you could do with the overtime.

Brussels (unelected, self appointed and self interested foreigners) will see you in prison faster than you can say "I'm British in a British Prison".

**** them all. I am ME. I will choose what life I live and take full responsibility for my life. I do not want, need or require idiots in another country telling me what I can or cannot do with my life.

Europe. YES

EUssR. **** OFF & DIE. I am not yours to play with. I do not belong to you. I did not elect you to speak and act on my behalf and I did not give you the authority to make laws that I must adhere to. Stop sucking my wallet dry. Stop spending my hard earned money on what YOU decide will enhance yourselves, your power and your egos.

I have not needed a "constitution" set in stone for the past thousand years. If you want one, at least give me a vote on it.

Now **** off and die, all of you. It is only 60 years since your last attempt and it will end as it always does. In tears, with MILLIONS dead.

LEAVE ME ALONE. You have been warned (yet AGAIN)

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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 11:57 pm 
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Old Holborn wrote:
Sciatico wrote:
Of course anyone who doesn't want you having more rights will try to make you dislike the EU and ensure your rights are not set in stone by a constitution.


How about if those rights in the new fangled "constitution" are actually LESS than you have right now? LESS than your ancestors had. Less than ANYBODY had (apart from the Soviets of course). Set your slavery in stone?

Nope.

Thanks for asking.

You don't seem to have twigged that a EU law provides a MINMUM baseline countries should not cross. there is nothing to say any country cannot do better. ( For example a minimum of 4 weeks paid holiday per year).


The EU does not give anybody more rights. It gives them less. If you doubt me, exercise your "right" to buy a pound of mince (or 480 grammes, your choice).

Nothing stopping you buying 500g and throwing 20g away. Aside from that, kids are now metric anyway and won't want to use idiotic measures.

Exercise your right to work more than 40 hours a week, if you could do with the overtime.

I'm self-employed semi-retired. I wouldn't employ any person to work more hours than that because they'd likely be too tired to do the job properly.
Anyway, someone who wants to do a stupid job more than 40 hours needs to get a life or a better paid job, or shouldn't spend beyond his means.


Brussels (unelected, self appointed and self interested foreigners) will see you in prison faster than you can say "I'm British in a British Prison".

Fafacksake, EU rules can ONLY be passed by elected MEPs (European Parliament) and the ministers of elected governments (The council of the European Union).

**** them all. I am ME. I will choose what life I live and take full responsibility for my life. I do not want, need or require idiots in another country telling me what I can or cannot do with my life.

What difference does it make where they are. You can't even stop your local council passing rules that affect you adversely or positively.

Europe. YES

EUssR. **** OFF & DIE. I am not yours to play with. I do not belong to you. I did not elect you to speak and act on my behalf and I did not give you the authority to make laws that I must adhere to. Stop sucking my wallet dry. Stop spending my hard earned money on what YOU decide will enhance yourselves, your power and your egos.

So you didn't bother to vote for an MEP but you did vote for (presumably) a party that supports the EU. If not, you agreed to abide by the rules of democracy for the winning party to make decisions for you.

I have not needed a "constitution" set in stone for the past thousand years. If you want one, at least give me a vote on it.

You certainly needed laws enforced, and it's only relatively recently you got to vote at all.

Now **** off and die, all of you. It is only 60 years since your last attempt and it will end as it always does. In tears, with MILLIONS dead.

An EU constitution would have prevented all that.


LEAVE ME ALONE. You have been warned (yet AGAIN)



I wonder if many European politicians wouldn't anyway make a better job of running GB than the very bungling cretins you actually get to elect.
I'm absolutely 100% certain foreign Education ministers would easily do a better job than the self-opinionated incompetents in charge of Britain's youth now.
There should be an EU "Minister exchange programme" where the best ministers of an EU country come to sort out the fockups an indigenous one has made. Finland, for example:

"Finland tops global school table" (2004)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/educ ... 073753.stm


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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:59 am 
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I think Sciatico clearly demonstrates the EU fanatic emotional opinionated drivel I was referring too! Not one of his retorts contains a single fact. Come on dunderhead give me a simple clear reason why the UK should stay a member of the EU and support this with some proof?

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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:44 am 
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oldrwb wrote:
I think Sciatico clearly demonstrates the EU fanatic emotional opinionated drivel I was referring too! Not one of his retorts contains a single fact. Come on dunderhead give me a simple clear reason why the UK should stay a member of the EU and support this with some proof?


Complete waste of time. I have already posted numerous reasons you are too thick to grasp. The EU is better off without your ilk.
EU citizenship will soon be taught in schools and you'll be too dead or too senile to care.


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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:50 am 
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Sciatico wrote:
You don't seem to have twigged that a EU law provides a MINMUM baseline countries should not cross. there is nothing to say any country cannot do better. ( For example a minimum of 4 weeks paid holiday per year).


But what happens if your country doesn't want 4 weeks paid holiday per year? :?

Sciatico wrote:
"Finland tops global school table" (2004)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/educ ... 073753.stm


Funny it doesn't say "EU schools all top global school table". Surely all this harmonisation and common purpose must lead to everyone going in the same direction?

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How have the advertisers of this blend of dried dogshit and tramtickets got away with not only calling it coffee but claiming it's just as good?

Floyd wrote:
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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:24 am 
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I have read your postings and you have singularly failed to prove any benefit for the UK from being a member of the EU. Claiming that I am not intelligent enough to understand your postings is not acceptable, so unless you can engage the debate with facts and deduction I suggest you but out and declare yourself an official EU-Loon.
Anyone who prefers an unelected QUANGO to democratic Parliament is clearly ignorant of history!

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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:31 am 
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The latest such study comes from CIVITAS (Institute for the Study of Civil Society) in the form of a masterly booklet entitled ’A Cost Too Far’. It is an authoritative work that has been put together with meticulous care and in which the author, Ian Milne, has maintained a bias in his research toward under-statement in interpreting data. His conclusions make for shocking reading. He puts the annual cost of UK membership of the EU on present terms at no less than 4 per cent of GDP, a colossal £40 billion.

This is a 2004 report, since then the costs have escalated as ZaNuLab have given Mrs T's rebate away.

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