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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:09 pm 
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Technically he was in Rome. As a virtual prisoner unable to pop out and grab a pizza, unable to go for walks in the parks, take a trip to Tuscany etc etc.

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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:22 pm 
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Morocco, Turkey and Albania want to join. The Swiss, Norwegians, Iceland and most of the UK want to leave or never joined. Even the Danes are wobbling and never accepted the Euro.

No further comment required

As I have said, Europe YES. I love it. I speak at least three European languages and am proud to live in such a diverse continent. Diversity which is exactly what the EU doesn't want.

Get us out of it NOW before Libya signs up.

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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:26 pm 
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Other Steve wrote:
Technically he was in Rome. As a virtual prisoner unable to pop out and grab a pizza, unable to go for walks in the parks, take a trip to Tuscany etc etc.


Technically he should have been in a prison cell in the Hague. Whilst he was busy rubbishing his hosts to any carrot who would listen, his 12 wives were out buying Rolexes and ordering new Mercedes with aid money from Geldofs Europe.

A perfect example of how the EU works.

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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:33 pm 
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Other Steve wrote:
Technically he was in Rome.


He was there.

The very person they cite as being a tyrant they will excerise control over.

Pathetic.

BTW, his wife reports that her shopping trips were fab.
_________________________________________________________________

Another example from that list (randomly picked)

Quote:
15. Minority languages, like Irish, Welsh and Catalan recognised and protected

Minority languages are gaining recognition. Be it Irish, Welsh or Catalan, minority languages are getting a greater role thanks to the EU which even has a Commissioner for Multilingualism. Irish became an official language of the EU this year. Catalans have lesser language rights because their tongue is official only in one part of Spain, their member states. The EU - with 23 official languages - is doing more to keep lesser tongues alive than some individual member states.


What shite. No I'll go further, blood boiling absolute madness beyond any comprehension. The very stuff I despise and loathe that has no, not any, sanity attached to it.

From an English speaking country, why not just force everyone to arse rape themselves using roller pin.

Mad, mad, effing mad!!!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:44 pm 
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Billions have been spent "protecting" the Welsh language.

There is not ONE newspaper published in the ancient pointless language. Plenty of publicly/EU funded websites though.

Bastards

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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:30 pm 
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My pet hate is Scots, which is English as it would be spoken or written by a Glaswegian alcoholic sitting in a puddle of his own vomit in a police cell at 2am.

Yet we employ people to translate websites into this "language" -

http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/vli/l ... /index.htm

Sample quote - "Ye are walcome tae visit the Pairlament tae hae a keek roon or find oot aboot whit wey the Pairlament warks."

And ye are welcome tae stop wasting mae taxes and kiss mae Sassenach arse.


God help us all if Turkey, Albania and Morocco get in and are given the right to move and work wherever in the EU they like. We'll be stepping over them sleeping on the pavements.


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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:57 pm 
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Other Steve wrote:
Probably a waste of keyboard Sciatico. The Euroseptics will just believe they could have all that without being in the EU. They probably still believe we can have a dominant economy based on manipulating trade with oppressed colonies.

BTW those that say how good Norway does outside the EU should look at their population (less than 1/10 of ours) and their quantities of North Sea oil. Norway is the worlds 3rd leading oil exporter.


You are absolutely right.

They'd rather barricade themselves into poxy Britain than have an EU 4-bed island farmhouse with 2 acres, sea view, orange orchards, year-round mild climate, very friendly neighbours, insignificant crime and low cost of living for the price of a manky flat in a dodgy GB urban area, for example :P

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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:03 am 
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The EU-Loon wrote and I comment.
- The end of war between European nations
rubbish this is totally due to the existence of NATO and the pacification of Germany

- Democracy is flourishing in 27 countries

unsubstantiated opinion which is not believable considering that the Law makers are an unelected QUANGO

Spain, Portugal, Greece, and the EU's 10 ex-Communist countries are parliamentary democracies. None of these nations were truly free in the decades following the Second World War. Each is now a democracy anchored within the EU and is unlikely to change course.

nothing much to do with the EU

- The creation of the world's largest internal trading market

so what

The 27-nation EU now around 500m people making it the world's largest economic trading bloc. By comparison the US has a population of around 300m. The old EU 25 had 19.2 per cent of the World's exports as compared with 14.4 per cent from the US. This gap is set to grow following the last enlargement in January to 27 member states.

wrong measurement, try GDP per capita

- Shopping without frontiers has given consumers more power

a benefit from a trade association
European consumers can buy goods for their own use in whichever EU country they choose - in person, on the internet, over the telephone, or by mail order - without paying additional taxes. This competition is driving down prices and increasing quality

- Crime-busting co-operation, through Europol
where is the evidence? I have read the hype
This provides a clearing house for EU police forces. The police in EU member states can now use an EU arrest warrant to get suspects moved from one country to another where they will face serious charges without lengthy extradition procedures.

- Laws which make it easier for British people to buy property in Europe

great, that must be very important to Average Joe

- Access to second homes a short-haul flight away has fulfilled the dreams of millions of Britons. Retirement or regular holidays from the south of Spain to the east of Bulgaria has become a reality for many and a legally safeguarded one at that.

- Cleaner beaches and rivers throughout Europe

don't require the EU to do this

EU law and peer pressure - including annual reports - have forced the UK to clean up its act, for example bringing the once-dirty waters off Blackpool beach up to standard. The first EU legislation was passed in 1976 with two more pieces in 2002 and 2006. Now you can monitor the quality of bathing water by checking on a website.

- Four weeks statutory paid holiday a year for workers in Europe

that makes the EU social costs amongst the highest in the world

The EU Working Time Directive ensures that all Europeans get at least four weeks of paid holiday per year. In the US many workers get a fortnight. The same directive provides for 11 hours rest in every 24 and one day of rest per week plus a rest break if the working day is longer than six hours. Minimum standards are set for paid maternity and paternity leave.


- Competition means cheaper phone calls
trade association

Since the liberalisation of telecommunications in the 1980s loosened the grip of the monopolies, prices have plummeted. The European Commission says the cost of international calls in the EU has fallen by 80 per cent since 1984.

- Small EU bureaucracy (27,000 employees, fewer than the BBC)

I do not accept your numbers but surely this is an argument to down-size the bloated BBC?

Despite the eurosceptic claims, the number of EU officials is surprisingly small. After the scandal of 1999 when the Brussels based European Commission resigned, strict new rules were imposed on spending.

- Making the French eat British beef again

you must be joking?

- Minority languages, like Irish, Welsh and Catalan recognised and protected

you must be joking?
Minority languages are gaining recognition. Be it Irish, Welsh or Catalan, minority languages are getting a greater role thanks to the EU which even has a Commissioner for Multilingualism. Irish became an official language of the EU this year. Catalans have lesser language rights because their tongue is official only in one part of Spain, their member states. The EU - with 23 official languages - is doing more to keep lesser tongues alive than some individual member states.

- One currency from Bantry to Berlin (but not Britain)
No lender of last resort denies the Euro from ever becoming a real reserve currency
The Euro is now the only real alternative to the dollar on the international stage. You can travel throughout 13 countries and use one currency. Slovenia became the 13th and latest nation to join the single currency this year. Several more nations have yet to meet the necessary criteria.

- Europe wide bans on tyrants like Robert Mugabe
did I not see the monkey in Rome, Paris and Lisbon recently?
- The EU gives twice as much aid to developing countries as the US
pity
- Strict safety standards for aircraft
trade association
Airlines deemed to be unsafe are now banned from travelling into any EU country. Recently some of Pakistan's national carrier were barred because of safety fears.

- Access to Europe wide medical care and free medical help for tourists
my insurance policy gives me that
Any citizen of a European country is entitled to free medical treatment if he or she is taken ill or suffers an accident in another member state. So long as you carry the correct form from your national health service, no questions will be asked.

- EU peace-keepers operate throughout the world
biggest lie of the pack, where are the Germans, French, Italians and Dutch in Afghanistan?
The EU is building its crisis intervention force and has taken over operations in Bosnia from Nato. EU forces have also been in action in Africa helping avert humanitarian crises. In addition the EU has a big policing project.

- easyJet , Ryanair etc. can fly anywhere without national rules protecting high cost flag carriers due to liberalisation of air travel. Any airlines granted a licence in an EU country - meeting safety standards and other conditions - can operate services anywhere within the EU. Between 1992 and 2000 prices at the cheaper end of the market fell by 40 per cent.

- Introduction of pet passports
Since 2004 travelling across borders with pets has been easier. In addition to pet passports with a vaccination certificate pets require permanent identification which can be either a tattooed code on the skin or a microchip which can be read by a special machine. In the future the microchip is likely to be obligatory.

- Unparalleled rights for European consumers
Any consumer can send back a product if it breaks down within two years of purchase. Manufacturers often claim that they offer only a 12 month guarantee, but EU law states otherwise and consumers are demanding their rights.

- Study programmes and cheap travel means greater mobility for Europe's youth

Through the Erasmus programme, in the 2003-4 academic year, 7,500 UK students spent between three and 12 months at a university in one of the other member states.

- Food labelling is much clearer

All ingredients used in food products must be listed. Any GM ingredients must be mentioned as must colouring, preservatives and other chemical additives.

- End of the road for border crossings (apart from in the UK)

Frontier posts have been abandoned between the 15 countries that have implemented the Schengen accords. This agreement means that EU nationals crossing most borders in continental western Europe do not need to show passports. The newer nations plan to join in soon.

- Compensation for air delays

Passengers must get immediate help if their flight is delayed by more than a few hours, cancelled without notice or if they are denied boarding because the plane is overbooked. The carrier must make alternative travel arrangements unless the passenger asks for their money back instead. Depending on the length of the delay they must provide food and refreshments and accommodation if necessary.

- Strict ban on animal testing for the cosmetic industry

Since November 2004 the EU has banned animal testing on finished cosmetic products entirely. Remaining safety testing on animals of ingredients for cosmetics will be ended.

- Greater protection for Europe's wildlife
Tough European laws protect birds, flora and fauna, although the EU bird directive is widely flouted in southern Europe, particularly in Malta where 2m migratory birds are shot each year, including 80 protected species which are shot or trapped by hunters.

- Regional development fund has aided the deprived parts of Britain

Some of the UK's poorest regions have benefited from massive handouts from the EU which has been used to regenerate some of the country's most run-down areas. Scotland's Highland and Islands have benefited enormously as have the Welsh mining valleys, Cornwall and deprived inner cities like Liverpool.

- European driving licences recognised

Driving licences issued in one EU country are valid in any other, providing they are modern, EU-standard, ones with a photo identity. This means that the old days of having to gain translations for a UK permit to drive in Italy are over.

- Britons now feel a lot less insular

A famous newspaper headline (perhaps apocryphal) once read "Fog in Channel; Continent Cut Off". Remember the 1960s, when Ostend seemed like an exotic destination? EU membership has not dried up the English Channel but is has helped to remove the psychological barriers between Britain and the continent.

- Europe's bananas remain bent, despite sceptics' fears

The suggestion that the EU wanted to impose straight bananas, or blue bananas, or ban all but Caribbean bananas, is one of the oldest of Euro-myths. Obsessive euro-harmonisation of rules is a thing of the past.

- Strong economic growth - greater than the US

- Human rights legislation has protected the rights of the individual
really, the individual illegal immigrant or wannabe terrorist or criminal?
The introduction of the Human Rights Acts has provided a legal framework to prevent abuses of power.

- European parliament provides democratic checks on all EU laws
what a joke

The European Parliament, directly elected since 1979, has been given increased powers over the years. The parliament has made a significant impact in areas ranging from the environment to animal rights.

- EU gives more, not less, sovereignty to nation states
what a joke

Switzerland and Norway, two independent countries have little or no negotiating leverage when they deal with the EU. In fact they have less sovereignty than member states who decide the policy. Britons are more able to control their own destiny - in areas from international trade, to environmental protection, to consumer rights - because they are part of a 27 nation, democratic bloc. Real sovereignty, rather than theoretical sovereignty, is enhanced by EU membership.

- Maturing EU is a proper counterweight to the power of US and China
without any military might, what a joke
As it develops common foreign and defence policies, the EU is finding its voice. Europe's interests and those of America and the emerging powers, such as China and India, will sometimes coincide, sometimes conflict. Could Britain's interests be protected if we stood alone or if we became a junior partner of the US?

- European immigration has boosted the British economy
the converse is the truth

Hundreds of thousands of Poles commute between Poland and Britain. More surprisingly the economies of both countries are booming. The UK economy has benefited from a surge of well-qualified, highly motivated workers.

- EU common research programme

Job opportunities and Europe-wide access to education mean there really are Europeans now who see the need to speak at least three modern languages.

- Europe has set Britain an example how properly to fund a national health service
so ZaNuLab totally ignores it

Some continental countries have health funding problems but several, the Dutch in particular, provide quality care while keeping down costs. It took the EU to rule that British patients had a right to seek care abroad.

- Mobility for career professionals throughout Europe

Professionals from doctors to architects now have a right to have their national qualifications recognised across the EU. Language and cultural barriers will always remain a problem for professionals but there are can no longer be purely protectionist obstacles to a career in another EU country.

- Europe has revolutionised British attitudes to food and cooking

Despite major drawbacks, the bloated Common Agricultural Policy has enabled small family farmers to flourish in Europe. Its support has led to the birth of the Slow Food movement and arrival in British towns of farmers markets, growing with quality organics produce. Bon appetit!

- Lists like this drive Eurosceptics mad

In the Daily Mail-Sun universe, the EU can never do any good. Brussels is an insane bureaucracy, which secretly plots to have all donkeys painted blue (with yellow stars).

Benefits of the EURO

1. Transaction Costs:
There will be no longer a cost involved in changing currencies; this will benefit tourists and firms who trade within the EURO area. It has been estimated that this benefit will be equal to 1% of GDP so will be quite significant. (this is sometimes known as frictional costs)

OK, but the fact that the single interest rates harm countries such as Italy is a counter argument

2. Price Transparency:
With a common currency it will be easier to compare prices in different European countries because they would all be in Euros. This enables firms to source cheaper raw material and consumers to but cheaper goods For example new car prices are much higher in the UK than elsewhere, a single currency could help reduce these price differentials.
true, but I can do the math
3. Eliminating Exchange Rate uncertainty.
Volatile swings in the exchange rate can destroy the profitability of exports. This undermines business confidence in investing. Therefore with a single currency business confidence should improve leading to greater trade and economic growth.
so let the planet adopt the $US
4. Improvement in Inflation Performance.
The ECB which sets interest rates for the whole area will be committed to keeping inflation low, countries with traditionally high inflation will benefit from this. However this point is debatable.

5. Euro is a global trading currency
only due to volume, not as a reserve currency
6. Inward investment
Inward investment may increase from outside the EU as firms take advantage of lower transaction costs within the EU area. Recently the Chairman of Nissan said the UK would lose inward investment if it stayed out of the Euro

7. Economising on foreign currency reserves
maybe
8. The financial sector could benefit. It would be easier to conduct banking and insurance with a single currency. It would be easier to trade German shares on the London stock market
Banking and Insurance is not an open market across the EU, it is riddled with protection

Sciatico you are really full of BS, where is the justification for a politically driven federalisation of the EU? The only benefits you cite were gained via the EEC

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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:34 am 
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The single currency makes no difference to each individual country's price structuring.
One country will charge more for goods than the next, OK if you live in an expensive country, but near to a border with a cheaper one.
I know a couple who live in France, but do their weekly shopping in Spain.


NB: Can anyone tell my how it's possible for a guy to be unsure as to how many languages he speaks? :scratch:
Quote:
I speak at least three European languages

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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:42 am 
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Elvis wrote:
The single currency makes no difference to each individual country's price structuring.
One country will charge more for goods than the next, OK if you live in an expensive country, but near to a border with a cheaper one.
I know a couple who live in France, but do their weekly shopping in Spain.


NB: Can anyone tell my how it's possible for a guy to be unsure as to how many languages he speaks? :scratch:
Quote:
I speak at least three European languages


Spanish, Italian and Portuguese count as more than one because they have many similar words which differ little in pronunciation. If you speak one it's like already knowing 1/4 of the other.

Brits are a bit disadvantaged when it comes to shopping. The idea of popping over the border to get cheaper groceries is alien to them.


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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:17 am 
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I speak three European languages fluently but I can also read Dutch, Norwegan, Swedish and Danish (being Germanic languages). My Russian isn't what it used to be though nor my Japanese.

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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:18 am 
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Sciatico wrote:

Brits are a bit disadvantaged when it comes to shopping. The idea of popping over the border to get cheaper groceries is alien to them.


Wanna bet? Apart from the obvious Calais run, many English are now getting their prescriptions free of charge in Wales and their healthcare free of charge in Scotland

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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:10 am 
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Old Holborn wrote:
Wanna bet? Apart from the obvious Calais run, many English are now getting their prescriptions free of charge in Wales


Obviously, oh multilingual one. Seeing as how you kind-hearted English taxpayers are paying for the prescriptions in the first place, we thought it only fair we reward you for your munificence.

Indeed, on the same tack, you will soon be slipping us around £50 billion pounds to enable us to build an electricty producing barrage across the Bristol Channel. This will produce about 6% of the UK 's electricity needs, as against 100% of Wales's electricity needs....forever !

We Welsh, (being so used to the generosity of our English neighbours) somehow know that you will kindly let us have all the electricity generated, thus enabling us to benefit from 'free' electricity for ever. :D


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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:40 am 
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Do the Welsh use any Leccy?

My mind is telling me that they all wander around with coracles on their backs and shave their palms by candle light.

A Welsh and a fit hairy eyebrowed bird yesterday

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 Post subject: Re: EU Expenses
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:34 am 
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Whatever he's doing to her, it certainly looks as though she's enjoying it! :mrgreen:

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