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 Post subject: Faint praise.
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:07 pm 
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Mr Pottering, a German Christian Democrat close to Angela Merkel, suggested that the example of Britain will be used to pressurise countries, such as the Czech Republic, who are resisting plans to isolate Ireland by ratifying the EU Treaty.

"I ask all those countries which have not yet ratified to follow the great example of the United Kingdom," he said.

José Manuel Barroso, the President of the European Commission, also had praise for Mr Brown.

"I would like to congratulate the United Kingdom on the approval of the Treaty," he said.

"I would like to thank the Government and Parliament for the constant support for the new Treaty during the negotiation and ratification process."

Janez Jansa, Slovenia's Prime Minister and current holder of the EU's rotatiing Presidency said: "Another endorsement of the treaty proves that it is still a living document .

Who would want praise from this lot? No doubt Brown is networking very hard today on his plans for a plum EU position.

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 Post subject: Re: Faint praise.
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:30 pm 
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oldrwb wrote:
No doubt Brown is networking very hard today on his plans for a plum EU position.
I am sure he will do much better than his spiritual hero who only got 30 pieces of silver, but then he has sold out a whole country not just one man. Even at 30 bob a head that should net him in the region of £90m.

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 Post subject: Re: Faint praise.
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:43 pm 
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If you would like to send a letter of support to the Czechs, you can do so
I wrote:

Quote:
Dear Chancellor Weigl,

Gordon Brown has just said on British National Television (BBC1) that your beer is shit and your birds are ugly. Then he called you a poof and said the Sudentenland should be given back to the effing Germans. He is now waiting round the back of the bike sheds to shank you. Watch out for his lickspittle Milly Band. Nasty piece of work.

Go for his good eye

Love and kisses

Old Holborn





He replied!:

Quote:
Dear Sir, Madam,

Thank you for your support for the position of the Czech President Václav Klaus regarding the Irish vote on the Lisbon Treaty. The European Union must not be based on ignoring its own democratic principles. The Lisbon Treaty was democratically and convincingly rejected by one member state, so it cannot come into force. Any attempt to neglect this fact and push the Treaty through by political pressure and manipulation is disastrous for the European future. I hope that people in Ireland, Great Britain and other countries across Europe will not allow for that. Therefore I consider your voice so important. Thank you.

Yours sincerely,

Jiøí Weigl


What fun

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 Post subject: Re: Faint praise.
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:54 pm 
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When I have rambled on about this hopeless shower of Euroshite my main theme has always been the total lack of any discernable democracy.
This illustrates it perfectly . The people who are represented by these drones have no idea what their masters are saying ,because 1]they are so far removed from the decision making process and 2] there are no Eurowide media to criticise or comment on the dreadful shit that goes on every day.
God help us all.
Very few people in Continental Europe who oppose what is going have a platform or a way of expressing their doubts. Truly this is a dictatorship in the making.

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 Post subject: Re: Faint praise.
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:30 pm 
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magog wrote:
Quote:
When I have rambled on about this hopeless shower of Euroshite my main theme has always been the total lack of any discernable democracy.


Democracy is useless if you don't know the integrity of the individuals you are voting for.
It useless if you don't have access to unbiased information.
(Since most media is biased in some way you can only check all sides of the spectrum and sort the chaff from the actual truths they tell.)
It is also useless if you don't know what you want, and what you want is also acceptable to people in different situations to yours (compromise).


Quote:
This illustrates it perfectly . The people who are represented by these drones have no idea what their masters are saying ,because 1]they are so far removed from the decision making process and 2] there are no Eurowide media to criticise or comment on the dreadful shit that goes on every day.
God help us all.


GB is worse in that respect.
Brits especially don't read much about things going on in Europe because the mass media is completely biased tat out to control their national opinion.
A Eurowide media is a good idea but how would you secure it's impartiality?

Quote:
Very few people in Continental Europe who oppose what is going have a platform or a way of expressing their doubts. Truly this is a dictatorship in the making.


On the contrary, many put up with far less sh1t than the brits, you just don't hear about it in GB media (except when the french go out on the streets). If anyone is suited to dictatorship it's the brits.


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 Post subject: Re: Faint praise.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:49 am 
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There we have it, proof that Sciatico, or is it Sciaticata, is anti democracy, he hjustifies his love of the EU run by an unelected QUANGO on the basis that the people are ignorant of the wonderful benefits it brings us.

Fact: the British have more serious daily Newspapers than any other country in the EU.

Fact: the British read, per capita, more serious daily Newspapers than any other country in the EU.

Fact: the EU-Fanatic dismisses tghe views of serious Commentators in serious Newspapers, because he has no counter arguments. He has become an EU-Drone.

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 Post subject: Re: Faint praise.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:52 am 
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Quote:
Fact: the British have more serious daily Newspapers than any other country in the EU.
What a waste of trees!

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 Post subject: Re: Faint praise.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:55 am 
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Yes we have the best newspapers in the world

But they still fall victim to "man bites dog" bias. The DM is particularly prone to find and publish the view of some assistant erk who works in a cupboard in Strasbourg that "All EU flags should be the same size and only use Blue" (or the like.

They do not publish (as it'd bore us to tears and worse) "Assistant erk in EU cupboard overuled for the 456th time" as that's "dog bites man".

The EU is flawed, badly flawed. The alternative is worse.

Moving on I had to chuckle at Mr Carla Bruni-Sarkhozy this morning saying if the treaty wasn't ratified then the EU could no longer expand. And that'll make the Irish, me, the man at the off licence and I guess 99% of our members here clamour for the Irish to to change their minds Mr Bruni?

So Turkey go and focus on Euro 2008, we don't want you in the EU (or Albania etc etc)

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 Post subject: Re: Faint praise.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:07 am 
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Stopping expansion would be the best thing to happen to the EU, it should have stopped at 15 members, IMLO.

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 Post subject: Re: Faint praise.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:17 am 
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It should have stopped when it was the Coal & Steel Heavy Metal Pop Group.

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 Post subject: Re: Faint praise.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:03 am 
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Democracy is useless if you don't know the integrity of the individuals you are voting for.
It useless if you don't have access to unbiased information.
(Since most media is biased in some way you can only check all sides of the spectrum and sort the chaff from the actual truths they tell.)
It is also useless if you don't know what you want, and what you want is also acceptable to people in different situations to yours (compromise).



GB is worse in that respect.
Brits especially don't read much about things going on in Europe because the mass media is completely biased tat out to control their national opinion.
A Eurowide media is a good idea but how would you secure it's impartiality?



.[/quote]On the contrary, many put up with far less sh1t than the brits, you just don't hear about it in GB media (except when the french go out on the streets). If anyone is suited to dictatorship it's the brits.[/quote][/quote]

Sorry Sciatico, I have now read and reread your argument and I really think you have moved into desperate mode. Your points ,if that is what they are, have been more than adequately dealt with ,but what's left is a feeling that you just think getting all together to fight off the evil empires of the East is "a good thing" at whatever cost.
What you actually get is another level of government, council,county, national and Euro. All of which have to be paid for ,guess by who? The money,after what's left to actually run this elephantine hydra in Brussels, goes to countries who don't deserve it ,who need to pull themselves up ,but will only do it if we pay them. Bloody marvellous so far then.
On top of which there never was a peoples' demand for this thing, they [us] were perfectly happy trading and being themselves but the Eurocrats wanted more central power because they know what's good for us. Is this sounding familiar?
It was bollocks at the beginning and it's bollocks now .

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 Post subject: Re: Faint praise.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:04 am 
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oldrwb wrote:
There we have it, proof that Sciatico, or is it Sciaticata, is anti democracy, he hjustifies his love of the EU run by an unelected QUANGO on the basis that the people are ignorant of the wonderful benefits it brings us.

Fact: the British have more serious daily Newspapers than any other country in the EU.

Fact: the British read, per capita, more serious daily Newspapers than any other country in the EU.

Fact: the EU-Fanatic dismisses tghe views of serious Commentators in serious Newspapers, because he has no counter arguments. He has become an EU-Drone.



Fact: oldrwb is even more of a Trougher than a bad politician

Fact: "Serious" newspapers are just as biased as "non-serious" ones.
(I wouldn't call any newspaper with a bias "serious". It is no more than a propaganda flyer that people are dumb enough to pay for)

Fact: What constitutes a "serious" newspapers is highly subjective.

Fact: Many newspapers have the same ownership or shareholders. For a GB example News of the World, the Sun and the Times are essential run by Murdoch and chums.

Fact: Brits still know very little about the EU regardless of what they read

Fact: Brits know even less about the british non-constitution

Fact: The western media in general (From TV right down to the publishers of educational books) is run by a highly disproportionate ratio of people loyal to Zionism, one cause of which is instilling hatred against the enemies of their colony.


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 Post subject: Re: Faint praise.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:17 pm 
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In my humble opinion the average Brit. is better informed on politics and the machinations of the EU than the average German or Frenchman or Italian.

"Serious" newspapers are just as biased as "non-serious" ones.
(I wouldn't call any newspaper with a bias "serious". It is no more than a propaganda flyer that people are dumb enough to pay for)


I would be very interested in knowing which saintly Newspaper it is that does not have political opinions, as that is the stuff of their trade. Do I detect desperation?
Still waiting for one justification.

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 Post subject: Re: Faint praise.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:01 pm 
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magog wrote:

Quote:
Sorry Sciatico, I have now read and reread your argument and I really think you have moved into desperate mode. Your points ,if that is what they are, have been more than adequately dealt with ,but what's left is a feeling that you just think getting all together to fight off the evil empires of the East is "a good thing" at whatever cost.


Actually it would be about resisting evil empires of any description (Microsoft, Monsanto, ZioCons, Opec etc.) but that's only small part of the story.
Brits totally underestimate the abilities of other European people.
For example to stand up to their own and EU politicians (take the French, Irish, Dutch and the Austrians). It is precisely because the cultures of Europe have different strengths that the best from each would make a better whole.
I trust the populations of the European countries to keep politicians in check more than that of the British population
Just look at the shower you let run GB and elect for MEPs!

British management and politicians are famous in Europe for generally being a bunch of inept muddling goalpost movers. That's why the BRITISH QUANGOs you love to hate are so crap and unaccountable and why brit industry went down the drain.

Quote:
What you actually get is another level of government, council,county, national and Euro.
All of which have to be paid for ,guess by who?


In a way you already have it. You already benefit/suffer from many essentially eu-wide laws that have been introduced by national governments into national law in the same way that you benefit/suffer from the ones inept GB government invents itself and imposes.

You would also save by not having to duplicate functions. Many could be done by larger and far more accountable bodies than the muddle of a thousand completely British (Qua-)ngos in GB.

Here is the list of EU agencies (click on stuff): http://europa.eu/agencies/index_en.htm


Quote:
The money,after what's left to actually run this elephantine hydra in Brussels, goes to countries who don't deserve it ,who need to pull themselves up ,but will only do it if we pay them. Bloody marvellous so far then.


Some say nobody deserves aid.
Some say that aid is worth it if it stands to benefit the aid giver in the long term (same as an investment).
Some would say giving is a christun thing to do to solely improve the lot of the recipient.

Who is right?
(Btw. EU development aid doesn't go to countries but to individual projects including some in GB).


Quote:
On top of which there never was a peoples' demand for this thing, they [us] were perfectly happy trading and being themselves but the Eurocrats wanted more central power because they know what's good for us. Is this sounding familiar?
It was bollocks at the beginning and it's bollocks now .


Even muddling oldfrt wants a trade block. But he doesn't explain how to administer it accross 27 countries. He also refuses to answer how differing social and employment laws in each one affect trade within the block and the social conditions of the workforce.
He would love GB to be a member of a block where he can fatten his wallet by paying brits a pitance for long hours in bad conditions and without restrictions sell the fruits of their labour to a host of foreigners who can actually afford it.
In short: A mere trade block with unequal social legislation fattens the wallets of a few but doesn't increase the quality of life of the general population.

That is what the EEC/Common Market was until 1986. Remember all the militant unionists and big strikes until then?


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 Post subject: Re: Faint praise.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:23 pm 
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Has a poor pheasant on this forum may I point out the great news sheets we have. BB is in turmoil, race rears it head again. Becks was seen wearing a turban. Who knifed Alex in the back? You have to look on the inner pages to find real news, like how much MPs have fiddle this week. Not being politically minded the French and Germans are after their revenge and boy are they doing good job. We cannot or will not deport terrorists lock up criminals and free murders and rapists to roam the streets at will. I dread to think what the next twenty five years will do to this place. Now the French demand our navy. Afghanistan the Germans refuse to fight so do others, the silly bloody brits will do it. Remember how the French cheered when their Exocet sank our ships in 82? Some friends!

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