Eyeore wrote:Jethro wrote:I think you have opened a tin of worms there Doc. Be prepared for incoming.
I will reply, but not to it all. The Doc has come up with nothing that hasn't been heard and reasonably refuted before.
Several regurgitated atheist soundbites. He spends most of his time attacking the bad side of religion, on which he and I largely agree. Unlike Ken, I don't doubt his medical prowess, but his theology, human psychology and philosophy comes up a bit short IMO, along with his on-line manners, but I find this exchange, through no fault of mine, in the combat zone, so perhaps have to expect that.
What do you expect, something original.
Religion is something that has bee done to death, not just on this site, there is nothing original that is left to be said. What ever I say you will come back with something your God or the church has done for the good of mankind as counter point.
Dr. Grump wrote:I have already explained this remark in this thread, in fact my explanation is below in your next quote. Further explanation is not necessary.
No, doc, you only back-tracked from the desire to "ethnically cleanse" all believers, the impression given by a loose sentence construction. Your opinion concerning the universal intellectual inferiority of any believer has not been retracted and indeed is consistent with most of your posts on the subject over the months.
I did not back track at all, I did not spend my working life saving lives to then support any form of ethnic cleansing. What opinion concerning the universal intellectual inferiority of any believer, again you are trying to imply something I have not said. I do not think that believers are have any intellectual inferiority, most have it drummed into their heads from a very young age, making a God part of their lives, that does not mean they have any intellectual inferiority because of a faith in a God.
Dr. Grump wrote:All religion is badly applied
So we'll ignore the abolition of slavery, the thousands of charities set up, education for more than just the rich, the millions of acts of personal kindness that happen every day, the acts of self-sacrifice all grounded in a faith in God.
I'm not claiming that believers have any kind of monopoly on all of the above (you are an example yourself), but your assertion that religion is never a driving force for good, and the implied one that atheism is rarely a force for bad, has to be challenged.
The abolition of slavery, the thousands of charities set up, education for more than just the rich, does not justify your religion or any church. There are many more charities and educational establishment that are nothing to do with the church.
You appears to be of the view that religious belief is purely a result of ignorance and that as we all become more enlightened it will disappear.
Religious belief is not purely a result of ignorance at all, it is often a result of poverty or ones upbringing, possibly due to a life changing event in a persons life.
Switching tack, let's hypothesise for a moment: just suppose that there was somehow a universal indisputable revelation of the non-existence of God or any spiritual realm, that everyone knew there was no factual basis for any superstitions or divine faith. Think through
all the various likely consequences of that. I did for a while and it's terrifying. The fact that people probably wouldn't go to war over religion would pale into insignificance compared to what they might get up to.
Eyeore, you are clutching at straws for a purpose for a God that no longer exists.
Religion at one time was the law of the land, it kept people from crime through a fear, call it what you will. it was a system of controlling the masses. We now have organised society with courts of law and police to keep some kind of control of the masses, if your hypothesis was a reality today it would change very little, it may have had massive repercussions 1000 - 2000 years ago.