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 Post subject: Boris on Marr
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:12 pm 
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Did anyone watch it?

What a fool the man is. Twice AM told him he was chuntering, lies told, few or no questions were answered, both men talking at the same time, I have never seen AM so frustrated.

And this man will probably be our next PM.

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 Post subject: Re: Boris on Marr
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:43 pm 
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The alternative just doesn't bear thinking about.

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 Post subject: Re: Boris on Marr
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:27 pm 
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I always think Marr is a terrible interviewer, he is clearly a left wing shitehawk. Boris is the best of a bad lot.

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 Post subject: Re: Boris on Marr
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:49 pm 
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Marr has a pathetic left hook

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 Post subject: Re: Boris on Marr
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:14 am 
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Now Boris has a thumping majority, can he do anything about the left wing bias at the BBC? - starting with the (not very) funny comedians who just spew political bile and hatred?

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 Post subject: Re: Boris on Marr
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:36 am 
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He is thinking of abolishing the licence fee, will that help?

Does it matter if the BBC favours the left, LBC is doing its best to redress the balance. I have just heard Ken Livingstone torn to shreds by Andrew Castle, and Sky News is not exactly pro Labour.

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 Post subject: Re: Boris on Marr
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:49 am 
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D P Dance wrote:
He is thinking of abolishing the licence fee, will that help?


Yes.

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 Post subject: Re: Boris on Marr
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:03 pm 
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D P Dance wrote:
He is thinking of abolishing the licence fee, will that help?

He certainly talking about decriminalising licence fee evasion which is not a good thing at all.

Capita, which administers the collection of the TV licence, is not above forging documents in order to secure convictions and to obtain search warrants. Decriminalisation puts non-payment into the realms of debt collecters and Capita would certainly not be above chasing debts which do not exist through debt collection agencies, lumping costs on top of costs and ultimately seeking civil judgements against perceived evaders where the burden of proof is considerably less when it gets to court.

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 Post subject: Re: Boris on Marr
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:32 pm 
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Have a voluntary licence fee for the BBC by all means but having to pay for a license to watch a TV in this day and age is ridiculous. :(

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 Post subject: Re: Boris on Marr
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:12 pm 
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ultimately seeking civil judgements against perceived evaders where the burden of proof is considerably less when it gets to court.

But what would the cause of action be? I assume that it would be for breach of contract, but how would that contract be agreed? Also, would the courts be able to cope? There long waiting times for hearings already.

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 Post subject: Re: Boris on Marr
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:05 pm 
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D P Dance wrote:
ultimately seeking civil judgements against perceived evaders where the burden of proof is considerably less when it gets to court.

But what would the cause of action be? I assume that it would be for breach of contract, but how would that contract be agreed? Also, would the courts be able to cope? There long waiting times for hearings already.

Because people are stupid enough to sign things handed to them by some stranger who knocks on their front door.

Capita salesmen (not enforcement officers as they would have you believe) rely on a signature on a form 178 which they present in court as evidence of evasion. Often the salesman will ask for a signature, 'because I need it to prove to my boss I visited', and people fall for this. They usually do not provide a copy of the form unless it is specifically asked for so false information can be added after the visit. It is not unknown for an unsigned 178 to be presented in court with a forged signature. The incentives for this behaviour are financial - the salesmen receive a bonus for each signed 178 and a further bonus for a successful prosecution based on that 178.

Capita also wait until the last minute to make any prosecution attempt, under current rules this can be just shy of 6 months later. They do this deliberately in the hope many householders will not be able to find their copy if they did ask for it. And the courts seem unable to do anything regarding any differences found should both the Capita and household copies of the 178 be produced in court. Because the form passes through several Capita departments before the decision to prosecute is made the person presenting the document on court simply claims it must have been altered by persons unknown in their system - because the mystery person cannot be identified nobody can be prosecuted for perjury, Capita loses the case but chalks it up to the law of probabilities - win some, lose some.

But for every case they lose they win several more, quite often because defendants simply fail to attend court and lose by default. Silly really because opposing a TVL case does not take much and if challenged Capita would rather back down and lose the case than risk close examination of their methods.

In 2017 there were some 184,595 people across the UK charged with non-payment of the TV Licence. It worth knowing that, because of the courtroom workload they gererate Capita run 'courses' for magistrates on how to deal with TVL cases. You can guess what the emphasis of these courses is.

It is also worth knowing that of the figure mentioned above, some 21,300 were found not guilty - that's 11.5% of the cases presented that fail, mostly because the defendants actually turn up in court to refute the charge. This is just for this one type of case. If that ratio was reproduced by the CPS for, say murder or GBH trials, then serious questions would be asked of that department.

If it is this easy to get a conviction in a magistrate's court where the higher standard of proof of 'beyond a reasonable doubt' is the legal standard, then the 'balance of probabilities' standard commonly used in civil matters is going to be manna from heaven for Capita.

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 Post subject: Re: Boris on Marr
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:46 pm 
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You are talking about current procedures Boundah.

If this is decriminalised, Capita would have to make a claim in the County Court. and have to prove that the defendant breached a contract, My question is how would the contract be presented. Surely it would have to be in the form of an on screen notice.

They would also surely have to prove that the person they are claiming against was the person who watched the program, they could not claim against the licence holder because the licence had been done away with. I do not foresee many cases reaching the SCC.

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 Post subject: Re: Boris on Marr
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:20 pm 
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D P Dance wrote:
You are talking about current procedures Boundah.

If this is decriminalised, Capita would have to make a claim in the County Court. and have to prove that the defendant breached a contract, My question is how would the contract be presented. Surely it would have to be in the form of an on screen notice.

They would also surely have to prove that the person they are claiming against was the person who watched the program, they could not claim against the licence holder because the licence had been done away with. I do not foresee many cases reaching the SCC.

You need to read my post again DP. Including the very first sentence. That form will still exist and it forms the basis of the admission by the signatory that they are watching live TV in a premises where there is no licence.

And it matters not to Capita who signs the form, the householder, his wife, a lodger, a visiting grandma, they have even had babysitters in court based on this form.

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 Post subject: Re: Boris on Marr
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 4:31 pm 
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I understood that Boundah, but what happens if no-one signs the form? How do Capita prove that the person watching BBC had agreed to the contract? Surely acceptance by performance would be almost impossible to prove.

AFAICS Capita are then Friar Tucked.

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 Post subject: Re: Boris on Marr
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:48 pm 
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D P Dance wrote:
I understood that Boundah, but what happens if no-one signs the form? How do Capita prove that the person watching BBC had agreed to the contract? Surely acceptance by performance would be almost impossible to prove.

AFAICS Capita are then Friar Tucked.

Do you not read posts before replying Dippy?

Boundah wrote:
It is not unknown for an unsigned 178 to be presented in court with a forged signature.

Because people, for whatever reason, do not attend court then the majority of these cases go through unopposed and because there is nobody to refute any forged evidence then nobody is any the wiser.

Where the defendant does attend and queries the form...
Quote:
And the courts seem unable to do anything regarding any differences found should both the Capita and household copies of the 178 be produced in court. Because the form passes through several Capita departments before the decision to prosecute is made the person presenting the document on court simply claims it must have been altered by persons unknown in their system - because the mystery person cannot be identified nobody can be prosecuted for perjury, Capita loses the case but chalks it up to the law of probabilities - win some, lose some.

What Capita does in reality is find out if which defendants have turned up at court, find the defendants beforehand and try to browbeat them into pleading guilty, meanwhile their main motive for talking to the defendants is to find out if they know what they are doing so they can withdraw any dodgy cases at the last minute so that suspect evidence cannot be examined too closely.

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