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 Post subject: Heat Pumps
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:49 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007
Posts: 214
Location: Cornwall
I was doing some work in my garage earlier and I caught the end of Jeremy vine's programme. He had a prospective Green Party candidate on.

Good grief aren't they all schoolmarmish? I know better than you, so do what I say types. Anyway I had a feeling the wheels were going to come off and sure enough they did- Vine queried her assertion about heat being used to heat homes and asked what they were-

"Heat pumps collect warm air from outside and distribute it around the house" And that was it! I was listening to the broadcast on my PC so I leapt on the Keyboard to type an e-mail to the Vine show to correct this feeble woman.

Tell me if I'm wrong but heat pumps are a buried spiral coil of tubing that harvest geothermal heat (so they need at least 1/2 an acre and many many feet of depth to work) which is pumped (probably by convection) to a distributor in the house.

I was aghast- does this thick as poo woman expect us to vote for her party when she doesn't even understand how green tech really works and how expensive it is, and how unsuitable for 99.99 % of homes?

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 Post subject: Re: Heat Pumps
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:39 am 
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Location: Auckland New Zealand
I think that lady was confusing heat pumps with HRV’s which recirculate heat from the roof to outlets around the house. Heat pumps are a different kettle of fish and are very popular in NZ. We have a 7kW unit in the lounge. The interior unit is mounted on the wall, and measures approx 41x12x10 inches. The exterior unit sits on its own adjustable feet immediately outside the interior unit which measures approx 28x31x12 inches It draws in air at ambient outside temperature and works on exactly the same principle as a domestic refrigerator. In the winter we use it to heat us, in the summer to cool us. No buried pipes etc.
Having said this I know that systems exist using ground heat and buried pipes. As you say not practical for most people.
We find it a very efficient and economical way of heating and cooling the house. Instant heat, instant cooling. Average winter power bill in an all electric house usually around £80-90 a month. Summer £50-60.
We never understood their lack of popularity when we returned to live in the UK.

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 Post subject: Re: Heat Pumps
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:03 am 
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Location: Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way
Volcanic heating systems are not popular here either.

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 Post subject: Re: Heat Pumps
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:47 pm 
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Location: West Cornwall, near the pasty mines.
We had heat pumps installed a few years ago, under our land are a number of flooded mine tunnels, the water is a constant 55F the pumps move that heat to the house and a big hot water tank. you have to have the right location for a heat pump to be a viable investment.

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 Post subject: Re: Heat Pumps
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:15 pm 
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Location: Auckland New Zealand
Jethro wrote:
We had heat pumps installed a few years ago, under our land are a number of flooded mine tunnels, the water is a constant 55F the pumps move that heat to the house and a big hot water tank. you have to have the right location for a heat pump to be a viable investment.


I saw something similar when I was researching heat pumps. This was installed in a lakeside house in Central Otago and used water recirculated from the lake. It appeared to be a very sophisticated system and the owner was a retired engineer. Many years ago, probably in the 1970’s the Daily Telegraph printed a long item about a retired electrical engineer from I think Norfolk, who had installed a system based on buried pipes, about three feet down and running, from memory quite a long way. Liquid was circulated in the pipes to a heat exchanger. He claimed it kept his whole house at 70F even in the depths of winter. He said the only ongoing cost was that of running a small pump used to circulate the liquid. But as Jethro points out, not suitable for the average householder.

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 Post subject: Re: Heat Pumps
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:14 pm 
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Location: Miles from anywhere in the middle of nowhere.
We looked into a ground sourced heat pump system a few years ago. We would have buried water pipes 6 feet under the ground. It would have involved about a 1/4 acre next to the house. The system would work well for a modern well insulated house but not one like ours with solid brick walls. We would need bigger radiators and a separate building dedicated to housing the rather large heat exchangers and even then the heat generated would only be background so our log burning stoves would still be needed. Good for domestic hot water systems I would have thought.

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 Post subject: Re: Heat Pumps
PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 5:37 pm 
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Tony.T wrote:

Tell me if I'm wrong but heat pumps are a buried spiral coil of tubing that harvest geothermal heat (so they need at least 1/2 an acre and many many feet of depth to work) which is pumped (probably by convection) to a distributor in the house.


Yes, that is one common type and the other is the 'air source' type that extracts relative 'heat' from the air and transfers it to where you require it to, usually inside to a heat output unit of some kind. This type does not need a large expanse of underground piping, but does generate some amount of noise so that needed to be taken into consideration when siting the external unit.
GES are one such company supplying & fitting heat pumps and the link below will explain:-

https://globalenergysystems.co.uk/how-it-works/

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 Post subject: Re: Heat Pumps
PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:44 pm 
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Location: Cornwall
CriticalMass wrote:
Tony.T wrote:

Tell me if I'm wrong but heat pumps are a buried spiral coil of tubing that harvest geothermal heat (so they need at least 1/2 an acre and many many feet of depth to work) which is pumped (probably by convection) to a distributor in the house.


Yes, that is one common type and the other is the 'air source' type that extracts relative 'heat' from the air and transfers it to where you require it to, usually inside to a heat output unit of some kind. This type does not need a large expanse of underground piping, but does generate some amount of noise so that needed to be taken into consideration when siting the external unit.
GES are one such company supplying & fitting heat pumps and the link below will explain:-

https://globalenergysystems.co.uk/how-it-works/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Thanks for that- I've saved that link. Can I ask if you have personal knowledge of these systems? ie have one installed yourself?

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 Post subject: Re: Heat Pumps
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:30 pm 
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Location: At the lectern
Tony.T wrote:
CriticalMass wrote:
Tony.T wrote:

Tell me if I'm wrong but heat pumps are a buried spiral coil of tubing that harvest geothermal heat (so they need at least 1/2 an acre and many many feet of depth to work) which is pumped (probably by convection) to a distributor in the house.


Yes, that is one common type and the other is the 'air source' type that extracts relative 'heat' from the air and transfers it to where you require it to, usually inside to a heat output unit of some kind. This type does not need a large expanse of underground piping, but does generate some amount of noise so that needed to be taken into consideration when siting the external unit.
GES are one such company supplying & fitting heat pumps and the link below will explain:-

https://globalenergysystems.co.uk/how-it-works/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Thanks for that- I've saved that link. Can I ask if you have personal knowledge of these systems? ie have one installed yourself?

I do not have one, but I will consider it as a future alternative to the 6yr old Vaillant gas boiler for heating when its no longer economical to keep in a good state of repair. A friend has one that was installed not long before he moved to the property and although he is pleased with the cost savings compared to his gas heated previous house, I was not enamoured with the background noise from the outside fan unit. I suppose I could get used to it given enough time, but I did think the unit could have been sited further away from the house and definitely not so near to the side access alleyway that seemed to funnel the noise all along that side. If I did replace the heating boiler with an air source heat pump, then it would have to be placed along side my workshop right away from the house, which would of course cost more to install taking into account the extra pipework and cabling involved.

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 Post subject: Re: Heat Pumps
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:34 pm 
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I should have added that me being 76 the boiler might outlast me, but I would consider it's replacement as my wife if 5yrs my junior and she is not 'cold' tolerant :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Heat Pumps
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:12 pm 
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Posts: 214
Location: Cornwall
Thanks mr Mass- very informative. That would work well well with our solar panels.

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