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Grumpier Old Men

"I don't believe it !" - Victor M.
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 Post subject: Re: Ive lost my faith
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:13 pm 
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I am not an atheist, I consider myself to be an antitheist.

In other words, I think the world would be a much better place without any religions, and the sooner they are buried & forgotten the better. Unfortunately there seems to be a deep-seated instinct for people to need to believe in something unworldly, so even if all the religions do become extinct, it won't be long before these stupid people invent new religions to keep them happy.

Nearly all modern religions have their origins from when the human race had evolved language but still had very little knowledge, no science at all, and no way of recording anything other than telling stories. Religions therefore emerged as the stories were told, and ignorant people living in caves or simple huts desperately needed explanations for the world around them that they could not possibly understand. The people who told the best stories were revered, and these early champion dreamers & bullshitters rose to high status. These early story sellers are the spiritual ancestors of the Pope and Archbishops et al. There isn't a god, there never has been a god, but people who feel overwhelmed by the world around them like to create gods, and then worship them as a means of explaining what they cannot understand.

I used to foolishly believe that at least Christianity had brought us Christian values, until I started to question that, and it now seems that Christianity actually held back the natural process of the modernisation of civilisation, as have other religions in other parts of the world. Christianity spread what we call Christian values, but these are nothing to do with religion, they are a natural reaction to society becoming slowly more educated, and a consequence of greater communication. Religions have deliberately retarded this process of civilisation, by suppressing scientific discovery & knowledge, suppressing free thinking, culturing societies where women are inferior, and by allowing the few who rise to the top of the religions to hold power in the most extraordinary ways. To see what the Christian church was like at the height of its power, you merely have to look at the Middle East today, where exactly the same processes of rule by fear, and the suppression of civilised values & knowledge are in full control.

The greatest legacy of organised religions has been to allow people to hate and fear each other for absolutely no sane reason whatsoever, resulting in wars and suffering over a period of thousands of years. There will never be peace on this earth, partly because of human nature, but also partly because of religion. That is why I am an antitheist, why I despise all religions, and why I pity the mentally weak people who follow these religions but should know better, and also those who have been imprisoned by these vile organisations since birth.

We are fortunate to live in a time and place where we are free to see that religion is no more than power and money wrapped up in pantomime and pretence. People in less civilised parts of the world are not so fortunate, but there really is no excuse for people in the supposedly better and more freely educated countries to continue to support this highly damaging nonsense.

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 Post subject: Re: Ive lost my faith
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:10 pm 
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Monkey1 wrote:

....

Religions have deliberately retarded this process of civilisation, by suppressing scientific discovery & knowledge, suppressing free thinking, culturing societies where women are inferior, and by allowing the few who rise to the top of the religions to hold power in the most extraordinary ways.

....



An excellently observed post - there is a well justified piece by Carl Sagan in one of his books (sorry, can't remember which one), which presents an argument that were it not for the suppression of Science by the Church in Europe, we would have colonised Mars by now.

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 Post subject: Re: Ive lost my faith
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:43 pm 
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Of course people will latch onto anything that seems to offer them eternal life; especially if they are frightened of dying. It is this fear of the unknown that empowers religions the World over. That many people are taken in by such promises only serves to bolster the "herd" mentality that there is safety in numbers. One person alone may doubt that God exists simply because there is absolutely no evidence for a supernatural being of any kind. If, however, belief in God is accepted by thousands of other people then rational thought is set aside and the same person may think "if all these other people believe in God and thousands have done so for countless generations then there must be something in it".

I don't know what created the Universe ...but by the same token, I don't give any credit to those who say they do. The Big Bang theory seems to suggest that the Universe created itself; which is counter intuitive. Having said that, Quantum Mechanics is founded on the laws of physics but is also counter intuitive.

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 Post subject: Re: Ive lost my faith
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:39 pm 
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Brother Hindmost - I think the book by Sagan to which you referred was "Cosmos" - it was issued in conjunction with his excellent series TV series of the same name. If I remember rightly the words used by Sagan were "The first Starships would have returned from the stars centuries ago" - there was a picture of the space vessel and the words on the side of the space vessel were written in Greek


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 Post subject: Re: Ive lost my faith
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:43 pm 
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old git wrote:

I don't know what created the Universe ...but by the same token, I don't give any credit to those who say they do.


:salut: :salut: :salut:

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 Post subject: Re: Ive lost my faith
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:44 pm 
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Thank you - I was going to cite Cosmos, but was not sure as I have read pretty much all of Sagan's work (fiction and non fiction).

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 Post subject: Re: Ive lost my faith
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:47 pm 
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hindmost wrote:
Monkey1 wrote:

....

Religions have deliberately retarded this process of civilisation, by suppressing scientific discovery & knowledge, suppressing free thinking, culturing societies where women are inferior, and by allowing the few who rise to the top of the religions to hold power in the most extraordinary ways.

....



An excellently observed post - there is a well justified piece by Carl Sagan in one of his books (sorry, can't remember which one), which presents an argument that were it not for the suppression of Science by the Church in Europe, we would have colonised Mars by now.


Just to add to that, prior to lockdown when I spent some time seriously questioning all this religious ordure, I had a wander around the National Gallery and found the whole thing to be thoroughly depressing. Many of the paintings up to the 18th Century had a religious bent, so it appears that the various churches also had the world of art sewn up as well as that of science.

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 Post subject: Re: Ive lost my faith
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:53 pm 
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Virtually all the great painters and composers could only make a decent living by working for the Church. By the same token, the great Cathedrals may have been dedicated to a higher authority but to me they are more a credit to the men who built them than to some Big Daddy in the sky.

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